Trip to visit fundy family

Starting July 17th thru July 24 I'll be in Kansas visiting my mother and her new husband's family. I'll be going by car with my religious sister and atheist brother, along with a nephew and niece. Several months ago when my sister brought it up I thought it sounded like a good idea, now I'm having some reservations.

At first I thought I was feeling anxious because, not only do I not know that side of my extended family; they are conservative Catholics and I'm sure they know I'm an atheist. I don't know how religious or how conservative they are, but if I use their acceptance of my mother as a guide, I would guess very religious and very conservative.

With more thought about my situation I realize it's not the people I'm nervous about. I will be away from the comfort of my home for 7 days around people I don't know. Yeah, I get anxious about going away on vacation, but at least I know I'll have my own bathroom and the privacy I value. Going away for over 3 days to a place I'm not sure of is scary and upsetting to me and I'm big enough to admit it.

Now I've got to work on "getting so over it!"

Email about Mrs. Obama

I received an email from a cousin about Mrs. Obama not being as good a person as Mrs. McCain. It stated some great things that Mrs. McCain as done for children as a result of being very wealthy. Something I wish I could do. The last line of the email then attacked Mrs. Obama because she hasn't done these wonderful things.

It pissed me off so I wrote my cousin and told her why that email was wrong on many levels. Apparently I wasn't the only one. Her email today stated that we'll all just have to agree to disagree and that she wasn't going to write anymore about politics.

Fine, but that pissed me off too. Here the letter I wrote back in response:

Just some thoughts about the mantra "let's just agree to disagree." Sometimes it's good to back off and let things go; we are all different and we have different opinions. Fair enough. I find this mantra to be a show stopper for the wrong reasons and I'll explain.

The majority of the email about Mrs. McCain was interesting and informative. If someone was interested in her it would give them the motivation to either confirm or disprove the subject or just learn more about her. The last part of that email implied that Mrs. Obama was not as noble because she hasn't done as much as the wealthy Mrs. McCain. I don't know how many people commented on this email but my only problem was the attack on Mrs. Obama. It was underhanded and immoral. If we have to agree to disagree on this then there is a serious problem with some people's moral compass. We need to call attention to this kind of back stabbing if we are to have a civil presidential election.

I also think that the mantra "let's just agree to disagree" causes some to disregard important opinions and information. For example: a few years ago I was for the death penalty. As a Texan and a Republican, I felt if someone killed another person in an especially horrific way they deserved to die. I got into a respectable debate with someone on the Internet about it and he had some interesting things to say. Instead of shoving my fists in my ears and saying, "I do not agree and we'll have to leave it at that," I listened. I heard things that made me uncomfortable so I checked it out. Now for many reasons and science based evidence, I'm strongly against the death penalty. Same for the Iraq War. I got into a discussion with a friend and she said a few things that got me to think and to research. I have changed my mind. In fact, I've changed my mind a few times about this but now I'm in favor of stopping this war ASAP and convinced the public was lied to for reasons we may never know.

In conclusion I say let it all hang out, but be prepared to take the heat for it. Keep an open mind and perhaps you just might learn a thing or two. BTW, I love it when people disagree with me! I learn much from the experience and one of the things I've learned is that I'm not always right. Good life lesson....

Peace!
Summer

New site for Atheists

From vjack and Poodles I've discovered this new site for atheists to gather and exchange ideas. It's a lot like MySpace but cooler. It's got a great name too: Atheist Nexus.

Kinda got that Star Trek geeky feeling to it. Love it!

I'm using my real name there. Check it out and add me as a friend.

My thoughts on Carlin

I am very sad today about the untimely death of George Carlin. Although much of his humor wasn't my cup of tea, I still liked him and admired his irreverence. I did like his bit about the 7 words you can't say on TV or radio. Another thing I liked about him was his outspokenness about his atheism. He will be missed by many people who loved his work and his humor.

A Meme

I got tagged by Oz Atheist:

Q1. How would you define “atheism”?
Atheism is the lack of belief in the supernatural. I say this to stop the next question which is "Does this mean you're a Satanist?" Honest, I've been asked this recently.

Q2. Was your upbringing religious? If so, what tradition?
My mother attempted to indoctrinate me into the Southern Baptist religion, South Texas variety. It didn't take at all. It was stupid even to a very young child.

Q3. How would you describe “Intelligent Design”, using only one word?
Disgusting.

Q4. What scientific endeavour really excites you?
I love astronomy and gobble anything on the web about it.

Q5. If you could change one thing about the “atheist community”, what would it be and why?
Getting them to be more enthusiastic about getting together to do something, anything.

Q6. If your child came up to you and said “I’m joining the clergy”, what would be your first response?
I have no children, but if I did I would be disappointed but I would love and support them just the same.

Q7. What’s your favourite theistic argument, and how do you usually refute it?
Pascal's Wager. I ask them how they know for sure that Christianity is the one true religion. Stumps them every time.

Q8. What’s your most “controversial” (as far as general attitudes amongst other atheists goes) viewpoint?
Comparative religion should be taught in schools by an atheist.

Q9. Of the “Four Horsemen” (Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens and Harris) who is your favourite, and why?
I love the way Hitchens crawls under everyone's flesh and flays them with big words and accurate arguments. You gotta love that British accent too!

Q10. If you could convince just one theistic person to abandon their beliefs, who would it be?
My mother. She is so blindly and blissfully ignorant that it hurts to be around her. She's been fortunate that no one has yet taken advantage of her. She's so old, so happy, and so shielded from the real world that I don't bother.

I haven't been following blogs lately so I won't tag anyone else. If you feel like commenting on any of these I'd love to hear what you have to say.

The Sermon, Part Deux

To continue the saga from my last post. My cousin obviously thought I meant something else by my email so I wrote this to clarify what I really meant. I tried to be as clear as possible without hurting her very fragile Christian feelings.

I think you misunderstood my email. It wasn't unsatisfactory to me, in fact it was everything I expected it to be and more. I enjoyed it very much because it forced me to be critical about the biblical and historical accounts Dr. Caner was claiming to be true. I don't just do this to religious people, I do this to everyone. It's called critical thinking. I can hardly watch the daily news without finding someone lying or stretching the truth about something to fit their own agenda. Everyone does it but I find it more disturbing when religious people do it.

I have no intention of trashing this CD. In fact, I was going to let several of my humanist friends listen to it so we could discuss it later. I did download to it my iPod which means I can burn my own CDs of this sermon to distribute amongst my friends. In other words, I would happily mail this one back to you if you will provide me with your address. Also, I can make multiple copies if you want to give them to others. Let me know!

Again, I appreciate the time it took for you to order and mail a copy of this sermon to me. It was both enjoyable and informative.

This is her reply:

OK, Summer. I can accept that explanation. And if you care to mail it back, my address is xxxxx.

Although I felt I handled the situation well, I felt she had already decided how she was going to respond based on what she thought I was going to say. This has been typical behavior for the fundies in my family. It's so important for us to spread the news far and wide that we atheists aren't bad and terrible people, that we aren't out to burn down churches or ban bibles. Our only goals are to keep government and religion separate and to be open about our atheism without fear of harm.

The Sermon

Last week a cousin writes in her family email that a guest speaker came to their church to tell them his story about how came from being raised Muslim in the United States to being saved by grace and is now a Christian. Through our various emails she said the lecture had been taped and I asked for a copy, which I promptly loaded into my iPod the moment I got my little hands on it.

It was a typical sermon by a typical charismatic preacher. He was preaching to the choir and knew he wouldn't be challenged on any of his facts. Here is what I wrote to my cousin about the sermon:

Thanks so much for the CD. I got it today and immediately loaded it into my iPod. I've just finished listening to it. Dr. Caner started out by sounding like a credible person. Unfortunately by the end of the lecture he was guilty of lying and omitting crucial information knowing that no one in the congregation was going to challenge his authority. Also he assumes the Bible is correct and the Koran is not without giving any basis on those assumptions knowing full well that no one will challenge him.

I listened to his lecture while I was working out and didn't take notes. If you're interested in more of what I thought I will gladly listen to the lecture again (he is very charismatic after all and easy to listen to). Mostly what I found flawed about his argument of Christianity v. Islam is the appeal to emotion. For example, he talks about how horrible Islam is then omits or glosses over the atrocities committed in the name of Christianity. And nobody called him on it.

Over the years I've studied Christianity a lot but never really paid that much attention to Islam. The points that Dr. Caner covered were things I already knew from the little comparative study I've done between Christianity and Islam. They are very much the same, with some differences, but the biggest difference is Christianity has gone through an enlightenment period whereas Islam has not. I also disagree with Dr. Caner about this war; I think the war in Iraq has done much to hold back this enlightenment and anger Muslims against the crusading Christians. What we should have done is continue good relations with Iraq (and Iran) and import our way of life slowly by importing our goods and services to their countries.

Thanks again, it was an enjoyable hour.

The response I got a few days later was weird. First off, when I didn't hear from her immediately I figured she was offended by my words and couldn't bring herself to email me. I'm alright with that kind of response. My religious relatives are of the very thin skinned variety and I'm not the kind of person to pull punches. As it turns out I got a reply a couple days later.

I'm sorry your found the CD of Dr. Caner's message to be so dis-satisfactory to you. If you intend to trash it, I might ask that you send it back. The demand for the CD's has been high at the church. I'm sure there are others who would find it valuable. However, if you want to keep it, that is OK too.

My first thought was "Didn't she read my email at all?"

I'll post the rest tomorrow.

More from a cousin

Lately I've been corresponding with a cousin who feels so strongly about God that she goes to other dangerous countries to proselytize. I'll write soon about my conversation with her about her religion.

Responses from last letter

The next day my cousin writes:

It is obvious that we need to agree to disagree. I respect your right to disagree and appreciate your willingness to allow me to do the same.

I immediately respond to her:

OK. I thought that was understood.

Soon after that I get this:

I'm sure it should have been understood, but I guess I just had to reaffirm it. Your questions cause me to believe that you are seeking answers, but I suspect you are trying to convince me I am wrong, as I am trying to convince you that you are wrong. Without common ground, there is no basis for discussion. But you are right though, that I can accept you as a good person who does not believe in God and that we are fellow travelers here on this earth - just headed in different directions.

It's obvious that she's misunderstood my position, as religious people often do, so I write:

I was only trying to convince you that I too had a tough and painful journey and also came out of it a better person. There was no intention on my part of converting you or trying to convince you that your religion is wrong. I didn't take your email as trying to convince me that I was wrong, just trying to get me to see how you came to your conclusions. I just hoped to give you something to think about just as you did me.

My questions weren't really directed at anyone. Just pondering, I guess, as I always do when people make important life-changing decisions based only on faith. Being a reality-based person it just seems strange to me and I wrote it a question form on the off-side chance that someone will give it some thought. I'm sorry if you were misled. That was not my intention.

Another thing that I wanted you to consider is the other side of the abortion debate from someone who benefited from this freedom in a positive way and how, if this freedom was taken away, we, as women, will be doomed. I find when I debate religious people about this issue they are stuck on the "potential person" issue and will not consider the real and living people in the equation. There is no clear cut answer in this issue but one thing is for sure, if abortions are made illegal, women will die and women will go to prison and families will suffer. The common ground is this issue is the safety of our sisters, daughters, nieces, and mothers and their families.

Her last email was to acknowledge a personal request which is not important in this discussion. She never once tried to engage me intelligently about any of the issues she raised. It was all about emotion and nothing about reason. If I thought I wasn't reaching anyone, even at the tiniest level, I would stop discussing religion with them. But I think that I am and I'm gaining respect as an intelligent atheist, which is another added bonus.

The Latest email and my rant

I've had a very busy month but had time to write this letter to my family after getting emails with comments about religious stuff and/or opinions that just pissed me off. Enjoy.

A cousin wrote something I wish to comment on. She wrote:

Our guest speaker at church was a former Muslem whose father was head of the mosque in Columbus, Ohio, He now is head of Southwestern Seminary What a story he had. Of course, he was very knowledgeable about the Muslem religion (could quote chapter and verse of many things from Koran) but could also quote chapter and verse of the Bible which pointed out the errors of the Koran. I am hoping they taped hismessage from tonight's service. It was so enlightening. I'd love to be able to share it.

When I hear or read these kinds of comments I wonder "How do these people know that the Koran is wrong and the Bible is right? Billions of people know the Koran is right and the Bible is wrong and what proof do Christians have that all these people are wrong?" This is a big reason I'm an atheist, there isn't a good answer to why one religion is wrong and another is right. I searched and searched for this information and never found it. What I did find was a lot of apologists that didn't make sense. There are denominations within Christianity that think they are the one and only true way to Salvation. What makes them wrong and yours right? One would think God would've created only one easy to understand religion so we could all get along.

Another thing I was to address is a cousin's comment:

Summer, just a word about the "honor killing" article. That is horrible and it happens often even in the US. How can a father kill his own daughter like that. That is part of the Islamic religion. But I had to think about women killing their own children by abortion. That is just as horrible.

Yes, honor killings are horrible. When one can kill a child on the word of God just because they have been dishonored using the word horrible is an understatement. But comparing this to a legal medical procedure used by women who have thought long and hard to make a difficult decision is offensive and wrong. I know many of you feel differently about this subject, but making a statement like this shows you do not think about what the woman getting the abortion has been through. You make it sound like women wake up pregnant then unemotionally decided to get an abortion like making an appointment to go to the dentist. In most cases this is simply not what happens. Abortion is a horrible, difficult decision to make and it is not done easily, I know because I had one at 22.

I sent this email out this morning but I had privately sent an email to my cousin about the honor killings vs abortion issue on Sunday evening. She has chosen to ignore me as has others in this email list. I don't really know why they don't engage with me unless they feel it's pointless to argue with someone who has already made up her mind. I guess I know how they feel.....

Seriously, can you imagine saying to people that abortion is women killing their children? It boggles the mind. If she had said that to my face I would've exploded. It's an arrogant and childish position to take and it demeans the tough decision those women had to make to end their pregnancies. I'm still pretty upset about it.